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Téma: Co ve FAQ nenajdete - tipy, triky a strategie v kostce

  1. #11

    Standardní

    Citace Původně odeslal Myyo
    Co a jak vylepšovat?
    Vylepseni vojaku je o 1,5 procenta za kazdej level. Pocita se to ze zakladniho cisla, ktery jednotka ma (bez bonusu hrdiny)
    toto by som opravil, lebo sa to pocita podobne ako uroky tj. podla vzorca ((1.015^lvl)-1)*100 cize na lvl20 to dava bonus 34.685501%

    tu je dokaz
    Citace Původně odeslal help.travian.com
    The increasing of armour increases the defense worth of units with 1.5% per level. This percentage is cumulative, which means you get bonus over bonus.
    a podobne sa pocitaju aj bonusy z hradieb, konkretne to je
    rimania: ((1.03^lvl)-1)*100
    galovia: ((1.025^lvl)-1)*100
    germani: ((1.02^lvl)-1)*100

  2. #12
    Avatar uživatele Dwane Dibbley
    Založen
    24.10.2007
    Bydliště
    Nachod
    Příspěvky
    855

    Standardní

    cesky FAQ

    90.Jaký bonus přidá nová úroveň u kovárny/zbrojnice?
    S každou novou úrovní máte možnost vylepšit bonus o 1,5% ke každému vojákovi.Každé další procento navíc se pořád počítá ze základu útoku/obrany.

    i na foru se uvadi ze ze zakladu, takze by to chtelo vyjadreni nekoho z TT.
    Life's battles don't always go to the stronger or faster man. But sooner or later the man who wins, is the man who thinks he can.

  3. #13

    Standardní

    Je to ze zakladu. To same hradby (u kazdeho levelu je jasne napsano, kolik dava procent)
    Logika ještě nikdy nic nevymyslela (Albert Einstein)
    ======================================
    Iniciativa za zneprávnění slova megacrop. Je to hnusná zkomolenina, která byla vymyšlena kde jinde než tady u nás v ČR lidmi, kteří nemají ani páru o anglickém jazyce.

  4. #14

    Standardní

    je to zo zakladu ale tych 1,5% sa nespocitava ale nasobi. A u hradieb mas jasne dane kolko pridava, ja som tu len napisal vzorec podla ktoreho sa to pocita(vo FAQ su tie cisla zaokruhlene)
    tu je presny vypis percent kolko co pridava

    kovarna/zbrojnica
    Kód:
    1	1,5
    2	3,0225
    3	4,5678375
    4	6,136355062
    5	7,728400388
    6	9,344326394
    7	10,98449129
    8	12,64925866
    9	14,33899754
    10	16,0540825
    11	17,79489374
    12	19,56181715
    13	21,3552444
    14	23,17557307
    15	25,02320667
    16	26,89855477
    17	28,80203309
    18	30,73406358
    19	32,69507454
    20	34,68550066
    rimska hradba
    Kód:
    1	3
    2	6,09
    3	9,2727
    4	12,550881
    5	15,92740743
    6	19,40522965
    7	22,98738654
    8	26,67700814
    9	30,47731838
    10	34,39163793
    11	38,42338707
    12	42,57608868
    13	46,85337135
    14	51,25897249
    15	55,79674166
    16	60,47064391
    17	65,28476323
    18	70,24330612
    19	75,35060531
    20	80,61112347
    palisada
    Kód:
    1	2,5
    2	5,0625
    3	7,6890625
    4	10,38128906
    5	13,14082129
    6	15,96934182
    7	18,86857537
    8	21,84028975
    9	24,88629699
    10	28,00845442
    11	31,20866578
    12	34,48888242
    13	37,85110449
    14	41,2973821
    15	44,82981665
    16	48,45056207
    17	52,16182612
    18	55,96587177
    19	59,86501856
    20	63,86164403
    zemna hradza
    Kód:
    1	2
    2	4,04
    3	6,1208
    4	8,243216
    5	10,40808032
    6	12,61624193
    7	14,86856676
    8	17,1659381
    9	19,50925686
    10	21,899442
    11	24,33743084
    12	26,82417946
    13	29,36066305
    14	31,94787631
    15	34,58683383
    16	37,27857051
    17	40,02414192
    18	42,82462476
    19	45,68111725
    20	48,5947396

  5. #15

    Standardní

    Harun: To u tech hradeb je mi ted jasne. Ale proc by se zbrojnice a kovarna mela pocitat takhle a ne ze zakladu? Pokud pocitas 1.5% vzdy z nove hodnoty, tak to rozhodne nepocitas ze zakladu. Neboli co te vede k presvedceni, ze je to tak, jak to rikas ty?
    Logika ještě nikdy nic nevymyslela (Albert Einstein)
    ======================================
    Iniciativa za zneprávnění slova megacrop. Je to hnusná zkomolenina, která byla vymyšlena kde jinde než tady u nás v ČR lidmi, kteří nemají ani páru o anglickém jazyce.

  6. #16

    Standardní

    Ked sa clovek pozrie na tie vzorce pre vypocet bonusu opevneni, tak si moze urobit predstavu ake metody pouzili tvorcovia aj pri inych veciach (napriklad ceny za dalsi lvl budov, cas vyroby jednotiek / budov) a nikde nie je pouzita konstatna funkcia. Preto som presvedceny ze bonus vylepsenia kovane / zbrojnice sa rata podal vzorcu ((1.015^lvl)-1)*100 , presne ako pise Harun.

  7. #17

    Standardní

    to je pravda vsetky ceny a aj casy budov rastu exponencialne
    geraltt:a co ma vedie k tomu presvedceniu? Na help.travian.com mas jasne napisane
    Citace Původně odeslal help.travian.com
    The increasing of armour increases the defense worth of units with 1.5% per level. This percentage is cumulative, which means you get bonus over bonus
    . Cumulative a bonus over bonus znamena ze sa to pocita vzdy z predchadzajucej hodnoty tj. podla toho vzorca

  8. #18

    Standardní

    Citace Původně odeslal Harun Zobrazit příspěvek
    to je pravda vsetky ceny a aj casy budov rastu exponencialne
    geraltt:a co ma vedie k tomu presvedceniu? Na help.travian.com mas jasne napisane
    . Cumulative a bonus over bonus znamena ze sa to pocita vzdy z predchadzajucej hodnoty tj. podla toho vzorca
    Anglicky umim, poucovat me nemusis V tom pripade diky za tip, na help.travian.com jsem toto konkretni necetl. Na tuto problematiku jsem cetl jen cesky FAQ, a ten je evidentne spatne.
    Logika ještě nikdy nic nevymyslela (Albert Einstein)
    ======================================
    Iniciativa za zneprávnění slova megacrop. Je to hnusná zkomolenina, která byla vymyšlena kde jinde než tady u nás v ČR lidmi, kteří nemají ani páru o anglickém jazyce.

  9. #19

    Založen
    18.09.2007
    Příspěvky
    14

    Standardní

    Citace Původně odeslal Harun Zobrazit příspěvek
    ja som ta nechcel poucovat, len som ti odpovedal na otazku Inac tie vzorce som prvykrat videl v nejakom navode na .com, alebo .us fore ten help.travian.com ma v tom len uistil
    tu to bolo

    http://forum.travian.us/showthread.php?t=3119

  10. #20

    Standardní nepreložíte to?

    Návod, jak se počítá boj

    Disclaimer: this is purely my speculation. I have done a lot of experiments with combat sim as well as real attacks so I think this is generally accurate.

    - Combat outcome is decided by 3 factors:
    + Combined attack power (cavalry + infantry, including weapons upgrades).
    + ram and wall level
    + pop difference

    Short summary:
    + A big army is always better than a small army: you lose a lot less troops when attacking the same defense. A good mix of cavalry and infantry attackers is also important. However, infantry is usually the most effective (based on attack power and crop consumption), so focus on them first. The exception is teuton, TK is such a great unit and the best horse among 3 races, i would recommend at least 3 axes:1TK.

    Here's the chart to compare units:
    http://www.haploid.nl/travian/units.html

    + Never split your offense, never split your defense. Overwhelming defense and offense is the key of victory in combat.
    + Rams are very important vs walls. Suggestion: 300-500 rams upon reaching a considerable army.
    + Pop difference is not small. The bigger the more loss. Always be wary of reinforcement trap before (much) smaller targets.

    Now i will go step by step, explaining each factor and how it affects the battle:

    + The mechanism of attacking and defense power.
    I will post some examples using combat sim with the assumption of there is no wall and pop is equal between attacker and defender to demonstrate this factor accurately.

    1st rule: in combat, despite there are infantry and calvary, everything is calculated and combined to an ONE exact attacking power number. The attacking value is static (which means it doesn't change)

    That means if i have 100 imps and 50 ECs, my attacking value would be: 100*70 + 50*180 = 16000 atk power.

    The defensive value is tougher to calculate as there are 2 defensive values, infantry and calvary. Where would an unit use more of its infantry defense than calvary defense ? That depends on the attacking power composition.

    Let's take a look at the above: the attacker is using 100 imps and 50 ECs. So the whole attacking power = 7000 infantry atk + 9000 calvary atk.
    -> the ratio between infantry and calvary atk power is 7 infantry:9 calvary

    A= 7000 Ai + 9000 Ac = 16000
    Now's the defensive attacking power is determined by this formula. We name total defensive infantry value = dI and total defensive calvary value = dC.

    D= di * (7/16) + dC * (9/16)

    Calvary and infantry defensive power is proportionated with the attacker's infantry and calvary power.

    That means, if the defense consists of 330 praets
    Total infantry defense di = 330*65= 21450
    total calvary defense dC= 330*35=11550

    D value would be: 21450 * (7/16) + 11550 * (9/16)= 9384 + 6496 = 15880

    So we have A = 16000 and D = 15880

    Now go ahead and confirm the formula for defensive power, put 100 imps and 50 ECs vs 330 praets to see the outcome.

    You can simply remember this: the defensive value is determined by the ratio of infantry:calvary of the attacker. It's automatically proportionated to the ratio of the attacker.

    Remember this is very important when you go up against an one sided defense, that means too much infantry defense or too much calvary defense.

    Many times, it's favorable not to use your full army, instead using only either infantry or calvary to kill the enemy.

    The famous case on travian forum is this:
    20 TTs attack 200 clubs = 8 TTs dead
    20 TTs + 20 swords attack 200 clubs = 13 TTs and 13 swords dead

    Many people don't understand why with more troops, there are more troops dead. As you can see the answer is simple. it's because clubs infantry defense is 20 while calvary is only 5. In the 1st case, those clubs only use their calvary defense value, but in 2nd case, they use part of infantry value as there are swordmen in the mix.

    This is just an extreme example, but it matters for other units as well, so you should always pay attention to what you are attacking.

    - The 2nd rule of this section is: casualities are decided by A versus D, between these 2 values. The formula of casualties is unknown, I'm not sure the exact formula but i can describe it relatively accurately.

    Basically the rule is: the bigger the better. The bigger A or D is, the less loss A or D take. Examples:
    1000 imps vs 1076 praets (A= D) -> 1000 imps dead
    2000 imps vs 1076 praets (A= 2D) -> 727 imps dead
    3000 imps vs 1076 praets( A= 3D) -> 606 imps dead
    4000 imps vs 1076 praets (A=4D) -> 540 imps
    5000 imps vs ... -> 494
    6000 imps vs ....-> 460
    ....
    ....
    20000 imps vs 1076 praets(A=20D) -> 306 imps
    40000 imps vs 1076 praets(A=40D) -> 253 imps
    80000 imps vs 1076 praets (A=80D) -> 217 imps

    Do you see the pattern ?The rate of decline in losses slows as the ratio of attackers to defenders gets very large. What does this mean ? This means it's not that really important whether you have 40 or 80k imps in this particular battle, you only lose 40 imps less with 80k imps. However, from 1k to 2k you lose 270 imps less. This means, bigger army than defense is very important, especially the first few examples (A=2D to A=5D) you lose A LOT less, it's vital in minimize your loss by having sufficient attack power against a defense. Before attacking, THINK about whether your army is big enough to destroy the defense without too many losses. If it's possible to wait to build more troops, WAIT. It's much better to lose part of your army then all of your army. I'm killing people's troops daily and i still have a big army is because those loss are so small it's irrelevant. But can a people with 3k army keep up with my offensive rate? The answer is NO because then he would take considerable loss to his army daily.

    Defense value also works the same way, just switch D for A in those examples and we have a good illustration why more defense is better. In short, the more the better. And passing the hurdles (the first few examples where A=2D to A=5D) is very important.

    This is also the reason why split armies should be avoided by all cost (except when one main army is building at maximum speed, but that's less likely possible due to the strain of crop). Having ONE MAIN ARMY is the best, then you can decide whether you want to build a sub army if crop allows.. You can choose to build it in a cropper capital or a normal village. A cropper capital will relieve you from the hassle to transfer crop or have to reinforce your troops to garages, however a normal village gives you the advantage of gb,gs.

    Personally i don't like GB but that's open to different playing style.

    Same respect for defense, DO NOT split your defense in every village, pick most important villges and defend them. Try to guess where the main attack is among the fakes.

    + Ram and Wall:
    http://help.travian.com/faq.php?page=city%20wall
    Wall adds a modifier on top of D value. That means at level 20 city all, total defensive value is multiplied by 1.8. 81% more defense, that's A LOT.

    City wall is the most effective wall, next to palisade then earth wall. However city wall is also most prone to rams, then palisade and last earth wall as almost indestructible (you need roughly 300 rams to take down 20 earth wall wall)

    Question: How does ram work during combat with defense ?

    Answer: First off ram has attacking value of its own (with the same as catapults) so they add on attacking value overall.

    Second, rams destroy wall DURING combat. That means, the more rams, the better to take down a wall.

    Examples:
    We will use big number of troops here to nullify the small attacking power of rams. City wall level 20

    1. 50k imps + 100 rams vs 40k praets => all impms were killed, city wall is brought down to level 11.
    2. 50k imps + 200 rams vs 40k praets => 2.3k imps left + 9 rams left city wall destroyed

    At this point, most players think "ah so i have enough rams, because city wall is destroyed"
    The answer is WRONG, yes you have enough rams to "barely" destroy a wall, not comfortably destroy a wall. The wall is being brought down slowly and during that process, it still helps the defense a lot.

    3. 50k imps + 400 rams vs 40k praets=> 11k imps left

    So 200 rams make the whole difference between 2.3k imps left to 11k imps left.

    Never underestimate wall and having a good number of rams when you're sweeping is important. The more rams the better, i would personally suggest the minimum number of ram = 1% of your army crop. Mean if you have 5k army, you should have at least 50 rams to go with that. Upon reaching 10-15k army, i suggest 300-500 rams (earthwall takes a lot more to take down than city wall).

    I've taken into account two factors: crop consumption and attack composition.
    The results give the defense value per 1 crop provided by each troop in 5 different scenarios:
    1) attack is 100% infantry
    2) attack is 75% infantry and 25% cavalry
    3) attack is 50% infantry and 50% cavalry
    4) attack is 25% infantry and 75% cavalry
    5) attack is 100% cavalry

    Please keep in mind that the percentages do refer to the attack power and not to the number of units.
    For example, an attack with 45 clubs and 12 Teuton Knights is a 50% infantry and 50% cavalry attack:
    infantry attack power = 45*40 = 1800
    cavalry attack power = 12*150 = 1800

    Before reading Inquisition's post I thought that against a mixed attack you need a mixed defense. My idea was, roughly, that anti-infantry troops would defend me against infantry while anti-cavalry would help against cavalry.

    Now I know that was a major mistake: each troop gives a contribution to the overall defensive power, and this contribution comes from the average of the two def values weighted by the % composition of the attack. So the best unit is the one with the highest weighted average! [where the weights reflect the expected composition of the attacks]

    Let's make an example.

    ATTACKING TROOPS:
    120 Teuton Knights => 120 * 150 = 18000
    450 Clubs => 450 * 40 = 18000

    Attacking power = 36000
    Ratio = 50% - 50%)

    A) DEFENSIVE TROOPS
    405 Legionnaire => 405 * (35*50% + 50*50%) = 17212,5
    405 Praetorians => 405 * (65*50% + 35*50%) = 20250

    Defensive power = 17212,5 + 20250 = 37462,5
    Crop consumption = 810

    Result:

    Attacker [Clubswinger] [Spearfighter] [Axefighter] [Scout] [Paladin] [Teuton Knight] [Ram] [Catapult] [Chief] [Settler]
    Troops 450 0 0 0 0 120 0 0 0 0
    Casualties 450 0 0 0 0 120 0 0 0 0

    Defender [Legionnaire] [Praetorian] [Imperian] [Equites Legati] [Equites Imperatoris] [Equites Caesaris] [Battering Ram] [Fire catapult] [Senator] [Settler]
    Troops 405 405 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Casualties 382 382 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

    B) DEFENSIVE TROOPS
    810 Legionnaire => 810* (35*50% + 50*50%) = 34245
    Defensive power = 34245
    Crop consumption = 810

    Result:

    Attacker [Clubswinger] [Spearfighter] [Axefighter] [Scout] [Paladin] [Teuton Knight] [Ram] [Catapult] [Chief] [Settler]
    Troops 450 0 0 0 0 120 0 0 0 0
    Casualties 421 0 0 0 0 112 0 0 0 0

    Defender [Legionnaire] [Praetorian] [Imperian] [Equites Legati] [Equites Imperatoris] [Equites Caesaris] [Battering Ram] [Fire catapult] [Senator] [Settler]
    Troops 810 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Casualties 810 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0


    C) DEFENSIVE TROOPS
    810 Preatorians => 810 * (65*50% + 35*50%) = 40500

    Defensive power = 40500
    Crop consumption = 810

    Result:

    Attacker [Clubswinger] [Spearfighter] [Axefighter] [Scout] [Paladin] [Teuton Knight] [Ram] [Catapult] [Chief] [Settler]
    Troops 450 0 0 0 0 120 0 0 0 0
    Casualties 450 0 0 0 0 120 0 0 0 0

    Defender [Legionnaire] [Praetorian] [Imperian] [Equites Legati] [Equites Imperatoris] [Equites Caesaris] [Battering Ram] [Fire catapult] [Senator] [Settler]
    Troops 0 810 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Casualties 0 679 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0


    As we see, though the attack is mixed, the best defense doesn't come from a combination of troops, but from 100% praetorians.
    This happens because praets have the best weighted value in this situation: if the attacker is coming with 50% infantry and 50% cavalry, each unit of crop should be spent on praets! There is no better defensive army of equivalent crop value

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